‘days Of Thunder’: Steve Bannon On The Second Coming Of The Trump Administration

Steve Bannon had some thoughts on what the next four years have in store for Donald Trump as he returns to the White House.

In a wide-ranging interview with POLITICO’s White House bureau chief Dasha Burns on Tuesday, the former Trump strategist and War Room podcast host taunted Elon Musk, predicted a much tighter ship at the White House and spoke about what his upcoming fraud trial might mean for his impact in Trump world. Here are our top takeaways.

On ‘shock and awe’ of Trump 2.0

The “shock and awe” strategy of Trump’s first administration? That’s so 2017, Bannon said.

Because Trump’s team is coming in more prepared, with a deep bench of Trump loyalists and groups like Project 2025 that have spent the last several years developing policy, Bannon said the new administration will be better positioned to hit the ground running. He predicted the early days of Trump’s second term will be even more intense, from quick Cabinet confirmations to a slew of thought-out executive actions and legislation — a departure from the rapid, scattershot policymaking that marked his first term.

“I tell people, ‘shock and awe was a ‘17 concept.’ ‘Days of thunder,’ I think are gonna be the concepts starting next Monday,” Bannon said. “And I think these days of thunder starting next week are going to be incredibly, incredibly intense.”

But he said he’s also expecting the new White House to look much different than the “contentious, in-the-open fighting” that was a hallmark of Trump’s first administration. He credited incoming Chief of Staff Susie Wiles for her savvy leadership style, calling her “fantastic” and a “safe pair of hands.”

As for some of the strongest personalities from Trump’s first White House — Corey Lewandowski, David Bossie, Jason Miller, Boris Epshteyn and himself — they’re going to be on the outside.

“And I think all of those people are gonna be very strong voices on the outside and whatever vertical they’re in,” Bannon said. “I would look for President Trump to have a lot of support both inside the White House with a much more smoothly running operation and also outside with allies who now have kind of their, as you call them perches of their own … that can support the president in the policies that he’s eventually going to want to drive.”

On Trump’s relationship with GOP leadership

It’s no secret that Bannon isn’t a fan of House Speaker Mike Johnson, but he acknowledged that Trump trusts both Johnson and Senate Majority Leader John Thune, which he said is important as Republicans try to legislate with a slim trifecta of power.

But he said it will be an “intense” period for the party, adding that the discussion over the best reconciliation strategy for forging ahead with Trump’s legislative agenda is the most “important fight” right now — one that will set the tone for the next four years.

“President Trump’s very comfortable with both people, and I think that’s very important because this is gonna be like going into combat, right? This is gonna be so — in the moment it’s gonna be so intense and decisions are going to have to be made. You have to trust the judgment of those people,” Bannon said, adding that he has different opinions. “President Trump makes the ultimate decisions.”

One place the intra-party fight will play out is over tax policy. Bannon reiterated his push for increasing taxes on the wealthy and corporations, as well as cuts in federal spending. As for where he’d be looking for some of those cuts? Defense spending.

On Trump’s first executive orders

Bannon said he knows border czar Tom Homan and Trump deputy chief of policy, Stephen Miller, are preparing a number of actions to crack down on the border and illegal immigration. But Bannon said he would also like to see Trump push it further and called for a temporary moratorium on all immigration into the country, while the new administration sorts through policy solutions.

He also said he’d like to see the creation of an External Revenue Service, as a way to collect tariffs and other forms of revenue from foreign sources. Maybe Trump was watching because not long after, he declared on Truth Social that he would do just that.

On Elon Musk

Bannon, when asked if tech billionaire Elon Musk is too close to the president-elect, threw a jab: “What’s shocking to me is he doesn’t have much power.”

Bannon pointed to Scott Bessent winning out over Musk’s favorite, Howard Lutnick, for Treasury secretary. He also noted that in the fight over H-1B visas — which are designed to allow companies to bring skilled workers to the U.S. and favored by Musk — the Tesla CEO has already budged by acknowledging that the program needs reform. Bannon said Tuesday that MAGA loyalists will ultimately win Musk over even closer to their position — that the program should be done away with entirely.

“We’re winning this round, and we’re winning this round pretty big,” Bannon said, referring to the H-1B fight. “I think we’ll get Elon there. As soon as I can turn Elon Musk from a techno-feudalist to a populist nationalist, we’ll start making real progress.”

As Trump’s big-tent GOP returns to power, Bannon and Musk have served as a prime example of the infighting already underway — and the challenges it will pose to the incoming president. It also serves as an early reminder that the incoming president has competing interests to balance as he governs.

“President Trump is good, particularly about people arguing ideas, and the best idea and the best policy wins,” Bannon said. “So going forward, it’s gonna be quite intense.”

But even as the former Trump strategist claims that Musk has limited influence, Bannon acknowledged that Musk had backed Trump's campaign with hundreds of millions of dollars, and he “deserves a place at the table.”

On Bannon’s looming fraud trial

The longtime Trump ally was released in October from a four-month stint in federal prison for defying a subpoena in the congressional investigation into the U.S. Capitol attack. He faces additional criminal charges in New York state court, where he’s accused of defrauding donors who gave money to build a wall along the southern border. He pleaded not guilty to money laundering, fraud and other charges, with his trial set to begin Feb. 25.

He claimed that it won’t slow him down at all, adding that he’s “simply not afraid.”

“I came out of prison this time with more power, more impact, more focus than I had going in. So I’m not afraid of prison. I’m not afraid of any charges they put up. I’m not afraid of any kangaroo court,” he said. “So we’ll take care of the situation in New York. Another political persecution, but we’ll get through that. It won’t impact me whatsoever.”

Ali Bianco contributed to this report.